Keep looking. I found something decent and you will too. It might not be a CPA thing, but it will be something, and then maybe you can find a way to take that exam. Competition is tough, so getting in the door is good. Preparation is important. I can see you are very, very frustrated and that is understandable. It is designed to get you the credits you need to take the CPA exam. For what its worth, I worked my butt off getting my degree from there.
However, I did toy with the idea of taking it off. My niece needed so many extra classes to take the exam that she went ahead and got her masters and graduated with both degrees. Yes Minimum Degree Required: Baccalaureate Additional Educational Requirements 30 semester hours in accounting above introductory level minimum of one auditing course and 9 upper division hours in business courses At least 76 credit hours must be upper division Note: Baccalaureate with semester hours. But, wow. Has it occurred to you that perhaps there are reasons other than your academic institution that might be holding you back?
Like your attitude? I agree. Ruth, I know this must be such a frustrating time for you and also, Maryland at College Park is VERY difficult to get into, despite being a state university , but often our attitude bleeds into our writings and our interactions. I love when I see this nugget of advice in the comments sometimes. It is definitely something the OP should consider and decide if it applies.
Yeah, at the risk of dogpiling here, Ruth mentioned below that HR people overly focus on soft skills. I think this is a good example of why soft skills matter. I think a lot of us feel truly awful for Ruth in this situation — these schools are predatory and hurt their students more than they help. And sometimes reality is really, really awful. Try to keep perspective — it sucks that your degree is seen the way it is when you really worked for it.
People here are trying to give advice, and you are reacting with a lot of hostility. This is what I was thinking. My state university degree is costing me a THIRD of what my coworkers are paying for Phoenix; my school is non-traditional, too, but better regarded and cheaper. The whole system needs a serious overhaul, beginning with predatory schools. They absolutely target low-income students, and squeeze every cent out of them. I went to a fancy private school and had basically nothing in my bank account.
It was fully financed by student loans that are easily available and for which I did not have a cosigner , like the vast majority of the people in my class. Yes, rich kids often go to fancy private schools. So do people with nothing. Yeah, I went to a semi-fancy? The masters cost way less, but I met people from various walks of life in both places.
I did the reverse — I always like to say that my extremely inexepensive I graduated almost 20 years ago public state university education is what got me into my ivy-league law school Which I then had to self-finance with student loans. They also paid the incidental expenses of certain things — they had originally bought me that car when I was a teenager, and it remained on their insurance. In addition, I remained on their health insurance until I turned 25 this was pre-Obamacare, but their insurance allowed kids to stay on through 25 if we were in school — that got me through 2.
Stuff like that. So…it sounds like your short term priority is to pass the CPA exam? Do you have what you need to do that? Please check you state guidelines for this. U of Phoenix is accredited so they should count. It can be done but is a rigorous process so be prepared if that is a route you choose. You need to find an appropriate outlet for your anger. I hope you find some peace. Can you stand one more piler-on-er—who really wants to see you get to a happier place in life?
This is not an easy road and the solution is probably quite personal, but I urge you to do the same. If you are a cashier, be the best, fastest, most pleasant and proactive-thinking cashier you can possibly be. Draw upon whatever nourishes your soul take a walk in public gardens? Nourish your soul. Find some way to cultivate optimism so that you present more cheer and less despair—to the outside world, yes, but more importantly, to yourself. A lot of military folks do distance learning and it shows an incredible level of commitment.
Agreed, and there are distance MBAs from many brick and mortar schools now so it still brings up the question of why the candidate did not choose a more well-reputed school. I totally agree that they recruit heavily from certain populations and not everyone knew the connotations of the school when they signed up. I feel like here is a social place in hell for me because I worked for one of these institutions in federal compliance many many moons ago.
The school gets paid and many times without as much risk to their federal student loan default rate. Which kind of brings up an interesting point. I started my MBA program, which was a nontrad evening program, in I think an organization that cares about the credential is generally also going to care about the perceived quality of the credential. There are NOW, but what about nearly 10 years ago? She was working the entire time, so that probably seemed like a better choice than quitting her job or not getting the degree. I wonder if when you got the degree makes a difference. But then she also had an undergraduate degree from a brick and mortar and tons of experience.
So I do think there were others, but University of Phoenix always had more advertising than anybody else. Loyola started offering fully online programs in — so a little later, but has still been around for a while. I did a couple of online classes at through? I needed a couple of higher level accounting classes so for me it was all about the the contents of the class and not the credits and I absolutely got as much out of it as I would have had I dragged myself to class.
I know someone who I respect professionally a great deal who did UoP and they feel they got a lot out of the classes themselves. I know some people look into them because their predatory as it seems to me financing practices make it easier for people who have trouble financing their education with conventional loans. I have three kids in college now what is disposable income, again? Which Loyola offers fully online programs?
Department of Education requires that any institution offering distance education programs to students outside of its home state must acquire authorization from the states in which students reside. Regulations vary from state to state. And they have a list of states and the authorization status. Finally I found a program that was fully-accredited, highly ranked and hybrid summer intensives on campus and that worked for me.
I had undergrad classes with one of the profs who was launching the program he was very excited about it. It, like most other programs, still required some on-campus time a long weekend here and there and I believe it was pretty structured. Go Bobcats! If I were looking for a program, I would definitely consider that one. Also, since I learn best in the classroom setting, I like the idea of having some on-campus time. Yeah, now. I will take it off and I will work for 5 years somewhere and then it will go right back on when I want a promotion. But there are still places that will fire you for not having a Masters of some sort.
People here are giving you the benefit of their candid opinions. I understand that this sucks. But people here are trying to help you figure it out. Just wanted to chime in as I have scrolled through a bunch of the other comments and wanted to echo what Allison is saying as well as add my own take.
They want people who have x experiences and y degrees from z institutions. Finally while I think its understandable you are frustrated, maybe try to focus on the skills you have learned and can bring to bear in a role. I have interviewed quite a few more junior peeps and you want to come across like an enthusiastic self starter. I have seen people from harvard dinged who come across as having a less than great attitude or are not excited enough about the prospect of working at company x.
Best of luck with both the coursework as well as the job search. In my life its been when one door closes, you break a window, disable the alarm, and climb in. What if you received your undergraduate degree from UofP? And by you I mean me. I began my degree at one school and finished at UofP. You wont always know for sure but there are usually hints in the job description about what they are looking for. My education history is spotty and generally non-impressive think several colleges, one particularly prestigious one, but no degree.
When I turned thirty I made the decision to remove the education section from my resume. Truthfully, most people dont even notice the education section is missing. Everyone is pretty good here at giving you their opinions. I hope you can appreciate the honesty even if it stings. You sound very frustrated and overwhelmed — I would be too.
FWIW I have worked hard at a degree that was seen as worthless. I went to a liberal arts school that regionally had a very strong reputation — and it provided a better education and more challenging classes than the highly ranked UC school I transferred in from — only to find outside of a mile radius of that school, most people had never heard of it and assumed it was a diploma mill. Why do you think your accounting degree will be worthless? When I started, it was a great school — now, I am only thankful that some people have never heard of their name.
So I know how frustrating it is. I had to start over. None of my credits transferred. Not to get off topic of the original post but if your school closed you may be able to qualify for a Closed School Discharge. You would think so, but sadly no. Because I was eventually able to complete a degree with my original major I do not qualify for the discharge.
I tried, it was denied, I appealed and it was denied again. Ridiculous, right? Sadly, no documentation survived his termination and so all of us students got screwed. I would be too Just remember nobody here is responsible for it! Keep trying and keep reading this blog! This would turn me off to helping, if I was being yelled at by someone who was crying about being a victim and how everything is worthless.
Things are what you make them. Go for it if you have the minimum requirements. Might not be your education or resume that is keeping you out of the job market. It might very well be your off-putting personality. The degrees tend to be from diploma mills and even though the act of getting the degree does represent a lot of commitment from someone who did it will on active military duty; the school reputation is way too problematic for us to feel comfortable leaving them on.
Yeah that makes sense and I agree about the reputation. I just feel a little bad because some of these school were so predatory about it. If I had my druthers, there would be no federal financial aid money going to any for-profit schools. No Pell Grants, etc. Good lord, thank you. There are many,many for profit schools that are on the up and up and outperform their competitors.
Sva and fit in NYC are both for profit. Shows what I know. I really hate the way U of P seems to prey on people who are in a bad situation. I worked with a woman who lived in a very rural area, and for whom online education was a huge plus. She works as an administrative assistant in a very blue-collar, non-healthcare environment, and has a massive student loan debt she may never repay.
That is such a bummer! I got my MBA from Phoenix while active duty and have been asked by a lot of people to go from enlisted to officer because of completing the graduate level degree. All of my class mates got government contracts or GS spots with the ability to promote. I really feel badly for people like the OP as investment in education is serious business on all fronts: financially, time, emotionally, etc. I would be so demoralized to find that all my effort and money went towards a degree that gets the automatic side-eye from a large percentage of the working world.
Thing is I just finally paid off my student loans from my undergrad degree a few months ago and I want to bask in the glow of that for a while. Big state, one central city, so having state schools in the rural area is important. I want to echo this. There is an accredited university in my province which never had a campus because it was always distance learning and was doing it before the internet University of Athabasca.
I think the most important thing when figuring out where to earn a degree is to see what external accreditation it has, not just how they deliver their classes. The for-profits definitely prey on that misconception in their advertising. In this day and age, it can signal a person who has little to no real world work experience, someone who either put themselves in massive debt or has been living off mom and dad.
That sounds more like a reaction to people getting degree after degree without ever working, not an issue with the MBA degree in general. My buddy is getting an online only mba from a brick and mortar university. The only way anybody could know is if they pulled his transcripts and happened to notice his class codes start with an ON followed by an 8 digit number as opposed to IS or OS. I could have gone to Phoenix, Arizona to graduate in a ceremony with all of the other University of Phoenix graduates who were there. They were not easy classes. I was not paying for a degree, I was paying for an education.
People swallow the MEDIA hype hook line and sinker when a lot of the debate is really about money that is going out of state instead of going to in-state schools. This is the real reason why nobody complains about party schools like Frostburg, Morgantown, Coral Gables…I could go on. But let somebody try to get a degree from a school that is guaranteed to HAVE the classes that I need each semester, online, taught by experts in their fields admittedly a lot of retirees — not like that is a bad thing and make the payments out of state and everyone in Congress has a heart attack!
UoP actually does have brick and mortar locations. I did not go to graduation but I did work hard to get my degree and am proud of what I accomplished. No, it has nothing to do with money going out of state. Specifically, recruiting students that qualify for financial aid or the GI bill. Obviously you were the exception — you did a great job, worked hard and truly learned from your experience.
Have you looked into the education requirements for taking the CPA exam? Do they specify the type of accreditation? Or is your issue not being able to gain the required work experience? I strongly disagree. Obtaining a degree from a for-profit university demonstrates what I believe is poor decision making and reflects on job candidates. But, a lot of junior enlisted come from rural areas and have limited education and life experiences. It can be a very paternalistic organization for that very reason.
I am all for my tax dollars helping veterans better themselves. Okay, I have to ask: are you otherwise affiliated with UoP in some way? They fleece people, and that sucks! The anger here seems wildly misplaced. Perhaps it is not your degree that is losing you opportunities. I am not speaking out of my neck. It is just the fact of the matter. I have nothing against online schools or for profit schools. Both can be good. UoP is not. They are accredited, sure, but I would wager that they are just barely. I have seen the level of knowledge they graduate and it is appalling. But it means it is less likely than at a more rigourous institution.
I totally agree with your overall sentiment, which is very compassionate and kind! Because I wonder how the different programs are seen by those reviewing credentials. I say this as someone with a masters from UMCP in an unrelated field. It was originally part of UMD, but it has been a separate institution since the 70s. OP here. I applied to Smith. Smith would have been great.
Do you want to start making a list of all of the terrible schools in the United States? Do you want to say that it has a lot of military and non-american people who go there? That would be a valid statement. No one is attacking you. My husband is unemployed right now too. I empathize with you.
But no one here is attacking you. I have a degree from U of P and it has only helped me. In I went to community college and took some continuing education classes that allowed me to getcertified in project management and process improvement CSSMBB. That alone has made my phone ring off the hook. I recently enrolled in a online dual masters program from a brick and mortar school solely because that level of degree is the norm for that level of certification. It may help you to bookend or augment it with community college or field relevant certifications.
Research how to play up your education In a different way and how to market yourself better. Being that my cousin has a business masters from UofP I just called her to confirm this was where she got it from and has been gainfully employed in the field of her choosing since she graduated in Your attitude stinks. Seems like you submitted your letter so that you could argue in defense of your naive decision and say woe is me, instead of considering people who might obviously know better than you do.
This personality flaw is probably readily apparent in an interview. Good luck. It does matter.
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There is a big difference not only in perception but also rigor in accredited versus non accredited schools. You are so right about this! It is up to each school to decide which coursework substantially meets that of a class they are exempting you from. They do not care how hard the class was, or if the teacher was good or bad, or if you wrote the greatest essay of your life. There is an option to take exams for some classes using the knowledge you already have — the cost is per class.
I think it matters. UMUC is not a good school. The majority of students here should not be in an undergraduate program, let alone a graduate one they let anyone in for most programs. I have a Maryland degree and explaining the Univ System of Maryland system to people is sometimes exhausting. It is a mes. Yeah, I think only people in the DC-Baltimore area know the difference. Taxes and resources stay in the state.
Not that it matters to anyone.
I may never work again. Maybe I should claim to be a high school dropout. I could never afford a school that was respectable. A-and now you can all cheerfully tell me about how I should go to community college and relegate myself to permanent lower class status by deleting all of my college experience from my resume. Yay community college!
Everyone on here is trying to give you a degree diagnostic. You are currently blowing this WAY out of proportion, and making very rude comments. Obviously you have a bachelors degree, why would you claim to be a high school dropout? Study hard, pass your CPA and continue to work hard. It sounds like you got your UoP degree before there was any reason for you to suspect that it would be anything but helpful for you.
I encourage you to take some time today for self-care. I suspect what is holding you back is not that you have a degree from UofP, but that you are competing against people who do already have their CPA. My sister in law just got a good IT job after earning her Bachelors from a community college. My son got his AA at a community college. He is currently underemployed, as it sounds like our OP is. Kelly, San Jac and Lone Star are incredibly good deals with great academics. I know people teaching at both. I used to look askance at community colleges too, but I took classes at some and they were excellent.
It amuses me that people look so negatively upon trades, vocations and manual labor work. People who own their own businesses, especially with low overhead like residential window cleaning, for instance, often are making MUCH more without the insane debt as someone formally educated working in industry. Niche, but high demand until a few years ago he saw the light. But when he looked back at the life he had been afforded and realized his income potential he changed his outlook. He will inherit the business from his dad soon, and has been studying business in order to grow the company when he is at the head.
His income is also in the high 5 figures, low 6 annually now. I think some of the com. I think your perception of community college is in the minority. I would look more favorably on an Associates degree from community college than any degree from UofP to be honest. I know a lot of people who did this. Occasionally it has come up in interviews, and no one has ever suggested I was being misleading or something. I can testify to the stigma some associate with community colleges, and would love to see that go away, or at least recede.
Did you get pregnant? I do agree there is some stigma with only attending community college. Sorry if I made it sound like it was all peachy and good for those graduates. But, I still think UofP looks worse on a resume than CC to the average hiring person if resumes were basically a wash otherwise.
The stigma is unfortunate. I spent my first 2 years at a CC and found that the quality of education I received surpassed that of the 4-year school I finished my degree in. At CC I had real professors, smaller class sizes and more individual attention. At the 4-year school I had graduate students teaching instead of professors, class sizes that easily filled a large auditorium and no individual attention.
I also did my first 2 years of an undergrad degree at a community college, and I fully agree that I received a better education there than at my accrediting university. Ha, this is too true. I graduated from a well-known university and had either TAs or classes of people. Community college is nothing to sneeze at. My local community college has a program that is nationally recognized AS. People move to my area from around the country to attend the program. Up until last year, there was a for-profit with a brick and mortar location that offered the same program….
Same, honestly. Hands down more times than not not to take away from my brilliant cousin who chose and regrets the UofP route. No shame there. Particularly since the OP states that she has gotten interviews with the degree on her resume. There are far worse things in life than having a skill and making an honest living. Also, holy crap does OP know what they make an hour? Plumbers, electricians, garbage men. Usually union jobs with solid benefits, insane overtime, and a solid middle class wage.
I just have issues with dirty things and confined spaces. Also being electrocuted. In some states the licensing is a giant PITA my state, for one. Those are unionized jobs with solid benefits as well. My boss chose to go into management from driving since he said he wanted more responsibility, opportunities, and career progression, but he said it ended up being a pay cut for a while until he got a couple of promotions.
Probably because I was raised by lawyers. I prepare taxes and do the bookkeeping for a few electricians and HVAC techs with their own businesses and they do very well financially. In our area if you call an electrician or a HVAC tech you have a wait time of several days. No shortage of work there. I remember just going to a movie that day solely for the air conditioning.
My father is now a Regional Director for a major transport company, and he never even graduated high school.
My whole family worked their asses off to be looked down on by people like OP, and it just makes me both angry and sad—sad because the work blue collar people like my family do is vital to the maintenance of civilization I know I sure like indoor plumbing , and yet attitudes like this persist. Okay, so…I hate snobs, but I think the worst sort of snob might be the sort who builds themselves up into the prolier-than-thou type before saying extremely classist bullshit. My husband — with a B. Sometimes you have to make lemonade out of the lemons life throws at you.
Yes, it sucks that Mr. BananaPants worked his way through college — a long, hard journey — only to have his degree seemingly be worth nothing in the job market. No one wants to hire anyone that defensively jumps down their throats. Best of luck.
It is not a cheap school. That is obscene. The important thing to keep in mind about prestigious schools is that they are often much cheaper than their sticker price because several prestigious schools have comprehensive financial aid programs. Elite schools try to give poor students a leg up while UoP takes advantage of them. Yup, same here. Many thanks to the affluent alumni that made my education possible. Community college courses absolutely do count towards the CPA exam requirements.
Those comments about community college grads are uncalled for. You want people to appreciate how hard you worked, yet are denigrating the work of other students, and the faculty and staff who bust their butts to give these students transferable associates degrees. Plumbing and HVAC are lucrative fields for many people, rather than leaving them in the permanent underclass.
My plan is do the books for small businesses, not work at a Big Six is it still six? So does my plumber. And my electrician. Most of my degreed friends and ex-coworkers would kill to make that kind of money. He has his own independent practice as well. Maybe I need to raise my potential, two-to-three-years-in-the-future rate.
My friend is working for EY right now in auditing but as soon as he finishes his CPA he is hoping to get into a private business too. He is already making really decent money at EY, but could easily double his salary going this route. As in worthless human beings? What an ugly attitude. The belligerence toward bystanding institutions and vocations is saddening, though. I took out student loans like the vast, vast majority of my colleagues.
I have to agree as well. There may also be a lot of employers who did give University of Phoenix grads a shot, only to have them bomb the interview or get hired but end up disappointing the person who hired them, so their experience may be colored by actual experience as well as the bad press. OP, I feel so sorry for you! Hopefully the education you obtained will help you breeze through your current program. But I wonder if you should mention the Phoenix education at all? I received a degree from University of Phoenix, and I learned so much in the program, but unfortunately we all know what that degree counts for.
So many people are in the same situation as you. If I was conducting the interview, I would still feel that the Phoenix education has value. Typo day! I second this angle. We can also assume that OP learned a fair amount by doing the coursework, which has value. So while the university has its problems, completing any MBA program requires effort and creates new ways of thinking about business.
The only downside I can see to not including the UoP degree might be in the payscale when you get hired. I know some companies put you in a higher pay category if you have completed a masters degree, so by leaving it off the OP might be losing out on some pay at the start. I used to work at an online school.
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Not U of P, but a close competitor. I managed our social media and saw questions from students and grads every day.
I have to say most grads struggled. It was unfortunate because I think people really did work hard and I am sure there were some great teachers and tough classes. But the majority of grads ended up working for the school if they found a job at all. Those who were successful were people who likely would have been ex: already working, just got the MBA on a lark, etc. I am sorry you are having a hard time.
You sound like you really took the most from the program. I hope you find something soon. I would leave it off. Sidenote: There was an online doctorate and someone defended their thesis in Second Life. They get to be called Dr. And for me kind of funny in a morbid way as I graduated from the biggest university in my state and I would love to work there given the chance, but getting a job there is probably harder than graduating.
The university in question makes you use their online application system for jobs. No problem. So when I logged back in recently I checked my history and found 95 failed applications staring back at me. No joke. I was having a good self-esteem day so I was able to just laugh it off, but geez! Oh God, yes. I applied a bazillion times to my school, for jobs I was perfectly qualified for and I never got in.
Even when I was a student I never got in! This has been done several times that I am aware of. That thesis went on to win awards at my school. In fact disease researchers used World of Warcraft as a prediction model for the spread of disease by tracing the way people interacted with a bug in the system some choosing to help others, some quarantining themselves, some passing it on purposefully. It was interesting research.
I was there for that event! I remember it vividly—major cities turned into absolute ghost towns and everyone kept dying, trying to get away and play in unaffected parts. Hey now. What exactly is wrong with doing your thesis defense using a great conferencing tool? I have a friend who works at UofP and another who works for a different online college.
The first is in business development and the second is in financial aid.
follow link I almost took a job at a for-profit college when I was a new grad. The role paid better than any of the other entry level positions I was applying for, and as a new grad that was a plus. I ended up doing some research on the school and knew I would feel guilty working there, so I declined.
I wonder if your friends no longer feel guilt after working there for awhile or if they actually buy into what the school is selling?
A lot of people there appeared to have bought into the Kool Aid though. The thing was, there were exceptional students. I talked to a prospect that went to a christian school of some sort for her MBA. I was the first person in my family, and I had an awful time figuring what to look for in a college.
I ended up going to a state school that offered me a good scholarship, but I can see how someone could make the wrong decision about attending a school, especially if their parents told them to or if they were an adult trying to get a degree while working and taking care of a family. It sucks that those schools are legal, because their practices border on fraud. This is so true. I think this is also the reason behind why so many are up to their eyeballs in student loan debt.
I can see this. Not only for the knowledge of the educational system that comes from parents having been to college, but their parents are also more likely to work in degree-requiring positions where they can see the reaction to for-profit degrees firsthand. The sad thing is, they bill themselves as being accredited, prey on the lowest rung of the food chain, and then charge huge fees way more than going to a normal week program to learn this skill at an accredited community college only to leave people up a creek later.
These poor people never knew what hit them. I hated giving them that news — I could literally hear them going through all five stages of grief as our phone conversations progressed. I have had two different experiences with UOP candidacy. While I did attend, I know a few folks that have. Congrats on getting your MBA, you did put in the work and the time. And I think you are right, it should mean something; perhaps it is just not universal. I do not think that the MBA makes it look like you are trying to scam anyone at all. OP was taken for a ride by a predatory for-profit degree mill; UOP are the scammers in this situation, I think.
I know a guy in sales, very successful, very well regarded, and he literally laughed out loud when someone put UoPhoenix on their resume and sent it to him. I am so sorry. It felt wrong, but they paid very, very well. What made you return to school? Bonus points for the personal improvement angle. Just saying you started the journey at one school and completed it at the other one will help waive off any reservations the employer might have. Especially if you are applying to jobs that require an MBA.
I think it would stand out, and not in a good way. There are a lot of places that do degree verification when said degree is a requirement, too. I know U of Phoenix as a school has regional accreditation, which presumably is what the OP is referring to, but a professional school needs to be accredited by a specific relevant body, and their MBA program is not.
Aaand as I note below this is incorrect. It is accredited, just not by the main professional accreditation body. I think the accredited status is a red herring. That actually seems more like trying to scam the employer than just saying you got an MBA from X and letting them judge X as they will. I think that the name of UofP would be eye catching at an initial stage in a bad way. It was just a suggestion. Honestly, with how quickly recruiters and managers look at resumes, I would most likely not notice a school name missing, especially if education info was listed at the bottom of resume VS the top.
But if I saw UofP, I might hesitate. The unfortunate part of this is, a family friend went back to school in her 40s at DeVry to get a degree in something like medical records. And community colleges have these programs. For trade school or for transferable credits to a four year college. I think community college might have less stigma now since four-year schools have gotten so expensive. Where I grew up, the local CC was very well regarded and had agreements with nearly all local high schools to let kids take classes there if they maxed out courses at their high school for example, taking Calc 2 or 3, or an advanced Stats class was common.
Thus, the campus positioned itself as attracting the best and brightest high school kids, who could then rack up credits to transfer to the state university system. Most of the people with whom I grew up went to a 4 year straight from high school but a significant number did the cc thing for a year or two for various reasons — but most certainly not due to academic limitations or to my knowledge financial.
I got my degrees from a community college ten years ago — when I was in my 30s. And I wish I had been able to go to a 4-year school back in the day. They get to work and go to school without paying tuition and books for an employer who wants them in school so we accommodate scheduling, we get people we need in positions that are sometimes hard to fill, and the school wins because they get fewer people dropping out of the program due to finances. Community college grad here, no shame whatsoever. Graduated with a top-notch education in my field, and enough units to transfer to a 4-year school as a junior.
You just have to be careful about the real transference of credits. DeVry is totally legit. I have hired people with degrees from DeVry and they are very well-trained. I could be incorrect, but I believe that DeVry is like a vocational-degree oriented program. Meaning their focus is providing very specific professional certifications in technology. If anything, it should cost less. My 4-year engineering degree is generally worth more than a 4-year engineering technology degree. DeVry does have ABET-accreditation for some of their engineering programs, which is huge in that field, but Engineering Technology is different than Engineering.
I was wondering about this: what are some of the other schools to be avoided? Well, if a school is part of a state network that should be fairly obvious. You can always check Wikipedia. I remember when we were hiring temps, none of them went to a normal school like a community college or university. It made me wonder if they had to look for temp work because of this. I had a friend who went to DeVry. He studied networking, which is a very specific in-demand job and has been employed in the field for at least two years now after having working about 5 at a movie theatre.
The benefit of a degree from one of the more prestigious schools after your education ends is that your networking options are probably superior. Move to southern California. You could do it after graduation, sure, but your peers in SoCal have been interning every summer with the local studios. Also, some degrees do better than others you have to be somewhat prolific to work in fashion, but if you have a strong graphic design portfolio, no one cares where you went to school.
I know Art Institute grads who work at big game companies, but in individual circumstances the Art Institution can be just as predatory. If all that matters is your portfolio, is self-study an option? Assuming it was something one could reasonably do at home without expensive equipment, like illustration. If the only benefit to going to art school is the networking, that almost makes Art Institutes and the like a worse deal than not going to college.
I think it gives you a leg-up and I think since your peers are so much more likely to be in New York and LA after graduation, the number of jobs you hear about internally, I think makes a big difference. So how you break in is to take an internship hopefully paid and then move up to designer or something like that. Because the -school- might not matter as much in this field, but having a resume filled with experience and projects certainly does.
If you can work for a nonprofit or something for a certain amount of time and create substantial work samples, you might be able to overcome that. Well, I think it depends on which discipline you are seeking training in. If you are talking studio art, you learn more in art school than just technique. Specifically, the critiques and the environment of working with a group of talented people pushes you to achieve your best. In other words, you get there faster and you learn a lot of the extraneous bs that goes beyond making the object. You also make connections that can help you in the long-term if you maintain them.
Community art centers are often good places to start for beginner skills and connections, but in some galleries, there is an expectation of college-level training. Believe it or not, the gap in skills can present itself later when you are competing for wall space with people who have had more rigorous training. I think that depends on what kind of art you want to do and where you want to go with it.
Commercial art graphic design, illustration, advertising , or fine art? You look at someone like Jean-Michel Basquiat, he was self-taught. Even if you study or are trained in technique at school, eventually you develop your own style, which is always self-taught. You could self study printing techniques by taking some courses and then paying for studio time. This person was tapped to be the Big Creative for an agency in New York. But some people need the structure of a program to meet people.
Art Institute is indeed a bad choice and I know two people whose path has been harmed by attending. Likewise other art schools or creative programs such as film, even the good and excellent ones, if the student is just planning to return to hometown or suburb, are also not good choices. She told me she will keep waiting for her big break to work at her favorite production company… A break that will go to a guy or girl willing to move wherever for the work.
This is a great question! Too bad answering it would get askamanger. So once the so-called for profit schools get out of the news the stigma will die down. Students are not manufactured products that are better from one place than from another. In the long run, we all teach ourselves. So many HR idiots are obsessed with soft skills, and they think they can tell if an applicant will be good or not simply from a two page resume and what school they went to.
After all, you can be fired for anything in the USA. A number in my industry, at least, the majority of reputable places test their candidates these days, but the pool of test-takers has to be determined somehow. And the more junior the role, the more popular. HR officers have to filter somehow: your CV, work and academic history are their first stop. At this point, you have nothing to lose by trying.
Never underestimate the power of soft skills. I worked on a project in one of my classes with a guy that I thought was really going places in life. I was so surprised to find out that he was a C student. His grades did not mesh with what I saw of him. Upon thinking about it, I realized his soft skills were above average, waaay above average. I was wrong, his pool of intelligence lies in people skills, that is his genius. I fully expect that he is successfully climbing the corporate ladder now. This is a great example. I am, however, people smart. And its the smart I would choose any day of the week.
Ruth, you need to work this anger out before you try to get a job. That needs to be priority number one in your life so you can live happier and healthier. There are a lot of ways to rate schools, other than just reputation. For-profit schools typically fail at all of these measures, which is why they have terrible reputations. There are hard numbers to back it up. Sometimes creating a portfolio of work or even YouTube tutorials on some aspect of your job that may fit that can help give an I press ion as well.
They interviews for my type of work are panel, multiple, and is based a lot on fit. My skills and what I can show get me in the door and I believe I make up for my shortcoming with the soft skills. OP, first off, I feel your pain here, and have utmost sympathy for your predicament.
Shining a light on those decisions is the only way the problems caused by unscrupulous for-profits will get rectified. This is very specific to the Art Institutes, but the local one in my city asked me to come in for a breakfast with a few other professionals in our field. And that would take six minutes for one of my junior level people to make. For programs like this, in the future, I would look for professors who are either scholars in the field for theory classes or actual working professionals for practical classes … to me that seems like a safer way to make a judgment on what the program will be worth.
As a former applicant, there were several issues that did not work for me, but the most annoying scenario was: I graduated from semi-famous school abroad in a program run by famous person. I was taught in English, obtained the degree, could provide transcripts, and had been teaching for several years. AI insisted that I used a service owned by a related company to run an American equivalency at my expense. Maybe this is standard practice? I transferred to a non-profit private school. We used to recruit pretty heavily out of DeVry.
Just the usual IT complaining about how no matter what you learn in school otj is a completely different world. Theory and practice are never the same, but in IT the chasm seems to be wider than many other fields. If you go to DeVry and get a job as a sysadmin or network engineer, you will either sink or swim pretty quickly and very publicly. Note that "University of X" should be alphabetized by U as first sort, and X as second sort within the U listings. For logging comments or updates, please begin your entry with a bullet point.
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